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 Subject :Re:44.0.0.0/8 ?.. 2011-09-24- 02:49:51 
AD5OO
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Joined: 2010-01-18- 23:05:42
Posts: 37
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Forum : General
Topic : 44.0.0.0/8 ?

Sorry, I should have made it clear that my response was directed toward KE5SWU who asked the original question.  I see that you (KF7RMM) have other intentions for the 44 subnet.  If you have a 44 address, using it on the WAN side of a node is fine, but not having done that myself I do not know how that is done from an internet routing perspective.

73
ad5oo


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 Subject :Re:HSMM and FREQ/Channels.. 2011-09-23- 08:48:51 
KF7RMM
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Joined: 2011-09-22- 08:32:11
Posts: 14
Location: Cheyenne, Wyoming, USA
Forum : General
Topic : HSMM and FREQ/Channels

That is Great news, is there any soft guideline on what power out put I should stay under? Thanks -KF7RMM
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 Subject :Re:HSMM and FREQ/Channels.. 2011-09-23- 08:40:04 
ae5ae
Member
Joined: 2010-10-27- 00:47:17
Posts: 144
Location: Van Alstyne, TX
Forum : General
Topic : HSMM and FREQ/Channels

If you feel you need to be absolutely sure that you're not interfering with ISM... the use of a spectrum analyser would be required to detect ANY signals in the area.   Then again, at the power levels we are generally working with, we'd be hard pressed to interfere with such equipment.

    -Rusty- 

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 Subject :Re:Re:HSMM and FREQ/Channels.. 2011-09-23- 07:59:53 
KF7RMM
Member
Joined: 2011-09-22- 08:32:11
Posts: 14
Location: Cheyenne, Wyoming, USA
Forum : General
Topic : HSMM and FREQ/Channels

----> First off, Wikipedia is the last place you want to turn to for quoting FCC rules and reg's. Yes, I know it's "convenient" but not the definitive word.

I did provide a link to the FCC website as well.

---->Anyhow, if you'll read what I wrote I had no problem with the so-called channel -1 (then again, that would depend on your definition) but(!) you better check your frequency tables for channel 14 which, according to the IEEE 802.11g standards, clearly falls above the upper limit of the 13-cm allocation for amateurs (2450-MHz)

My understand is Channel 14 is (2.484GHz) from 2.474GHz to 2.494GHz ah!! of course you are right, Not sure why I thought 2.494 was less then 2.450!! duh. 

---->as well as the ISM band (2483.5-MHz) for the United States. Please explain how the standard WiFi channel 14, available only in Japan and is centered on 2484-MHz, is within the US Ham bands?  

It is not, I am wrong.

---->Even the low end is around 2472-MHz and still 22-MHz ABOVE the highest frequency available in the 13-cm ham band.  If you have a different definition of channel 14 please explain.

>The segment, 2.390 to 2.417 GHz, is domestically allocated amateur radio on a primary basis,

---->I don't think so since Part 97.303(e) which reads:


"Amateur stations receiving in the 33 cm band, the 2400–2450 MHz segment, the
5.725–5.875 GHz segment, the 1.2 cm band, the 2.5 mm band, or the 244–246 GHz
segment must accept interference from industrial, scientific, and medical (ISM) equipment."


---->Not sure how you can call that a primary allocation and your Wikipedia quote of 2400-2419 is not mentioned in the current Part 97.

---->-Rusty-

Thanks Rusty, if I did use Channel -1 how would I know that I am not interfering with ISM?

Thanks
-KF7RMM
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Last Edited On: 2011-09-23- 08:04:03 By KF7RMM for the Reason edited for readability
 Subject :Re:HSMM and FREQ/Channels.. 2011-09-23- 05:40:21 
ae5ae
Member
Joined: 2010-10-27- 00:47:17
Posts: 144
Location: Van Alstyne, TX
Forum : General
Topic : HSMM and FREQ/Channels

First off, Wikipedia is the last place you want to turn to for quoting FCC rules and
reg's. Yes, I know it's "convenient" but not the definitive word.


Anyhow, if you'll read what I wrote I had no problem with the so-called channel -1
(then again, that would depend on your definition) but(!) you better check your
frequency tables for channel 14 which, according to the IEEE 802.11g standards,
clearly falls above the upper limit of the 13-cm allocation for amateurs (2450-MHz)
as well as the ISM band (2483.5-MHz) for the United States. Please explain how the
standard WiFi channel 14, available only in Japan and is centered on 2484-MHz, is
within the US Ham bands?  Even the low end is around 2472-MHz and still 22-MHz
ABOVE the highest frequency available in the 13-cm ham band.  If you have a different
definition of channel 14 please explain.

>The segment, 2.390 to 2.417 GHz, is domestically allocated amateur radio on a primary basis,

I don't think so since Part 97.303(e) which reads:


"Amateur stations receiving in the 33 cm band, the 2400–2450 MHz segment, the
5.725–5.875 GHz segment, the 1.2 cm band, the 2.5 mm band, or the 244–246 GHz
segment must accept interference from industrial, scientific, and medical (ISM) equipment."



Not sure how you can call that a primary allocation and your Wikipedia quote of 2400-2419 is not mentioned in the current Part 97.

-Rusty-

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Last Edited On: 2011-09-23- 05:53:18 By ae5ae for the Reason formatting
 Subject :Re:44.0.0.0/8 ?.. 2011-09-23- 03:11:40 
KF7RMM
Member
Joined: 2011-09-22- 08:32:11
Posts: 14
Location: Cheyenne, Wyoming, USA
Forum : General
Topic : 44.0.0.0/8 ?

As I have stated(I believe 3 times now) I have no plans to put AMPRnet address onto HSMM.
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 Subject :Re:HSMM and FREQ/Channels.. 2011-09-23- 03:05:53 
KF7RMM
Member
Joined: 2011-09-22- 08:32:11
Posts: 14
Location: Cheyenne, Wyoming, USA
Forum : General
Topic : HSMM and FREQ/Channels

Thanks for your Reply.


"In the United States, the 13 cm band comprises frequencies in two segments stretching from 2.300 to 2.310 GHz, and from 2.390 to 2.450 GHz[2] The segment, 2.390 to 2.417 GHz, is domestically allocated amateur radio on a primary basis, while the remainder of the band is only available on a secondary basis.[1]" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13_centimeters

for more information see [1] http://transition.fcc.gov/oet/spectrum/table/fcctable.pdf


My understanding is as a license ham I am granted the right to use any device I want even if that device was released by the manufacturer to comply with part 15. As a license ham I am authorized to modify said device to make it comply with part 97. Channel "Negative 1" and Channel 14 both would fall under part 97.


With Channel "Negative 1" Falling into the frequency space that is reserved for Amateur radio as the primary user. This is why I see Channel Negative -1 Being the BEST? Channel for use in HSMM as the Primary users are Amateur Radio Operators and falls outside of part 15. Channel 14 is still desirable because it falls outside of part 15 although Amateur Radio Operators would be the secondary user.

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Last Edited On: 2011-09-23- 03:18:42 By KF7RMM for the Reason Spaced out text for readability
 Subject :Re:HSMM and FREQ/Channels.. 2011-09-22- 20:31:35 
ae5ae
Member
Joined: 2010-10-27- 00:47:17
Posts: 144
Location: Van Alstyne, TX
Forum : General
Topic : HSMM and FREQ/Channels

Channel 1 is the default/standard channel for HSMM-MESH. Channel 14 is outside of the ham bands and is not legal for Part 15 devices in the US. Watch your reg's! -Rusty-
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 Subject :Re:44.0.0.0/8 ?.. 2011-09-22- 16:55:23 
AD5OO
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Joined: 2010-01-18- 23:05:42
Posts: 37
Location
Forum : General
Topic : 44.0.0.0/8 ?

If you have gone to the effort of being allocated a subnet within the 44.0.0.0/8 space and having made the arrangements with your ISP to have that traffic routed to you, then by all means set up your network to work in that manner.  Keep in mind though that you have taken on a lot of manual configuration and administration, and you are running what is essentially a private mesh.  Nobody else could come within RF range of your mesh and expect to have their node work with yours without it being pre-configured to do so.  HSMM-MESH is not intended to bring inbound Internet access to the mesh, nor is it intended to require nodes to have a specific manual configuration to be able to use the mesh.  Putting a mesh on 44 cannot meet those goals, and there are other mesh network implementations that would be better suited for this purpose.  If you believe that the HSMM-MESH firmware really is the best tool for your job, feel free to use it but please change your SSID along with all the other settings and software that will have to be modified to make a 44 mesh work.


73
ad5oo

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 Subject :Re:HSMM-MESH Node KC6SSM-101 Up and Running.. 2011-09-22- 12:12:58 
kf6obi
Member
Joined: 2011-09-19- 13:38:50
Posts: 1
Location: Willows, Glenn County, California, 95988
Forum : SFBay Area
Topic : HSMM-MESH Node KC6SSM-101 Up and Running

New to the Forum and had a look at what you have done. Liked what I saw and you gave me many ideas. I'm looking to build a MESH here in Glenn County to further my learning of IP and Wireless modes. Any suggestions would be very helpful and welcomed. Maybe we can link the two MESH's together? You have done a terrific job on your build. I took a look at the fines on your server and although the pictures were slow to load it was not bad at all and demonstrated just how this works and can benefit all of Amateur radio kingdom. 73, Mikey, kf6obi
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8) Mikey
 Subject :Re:HSMM and FREQ/Channels.. 2011-09-22- 05:49:53 
KF7RMM
Member
Joined: 2011-09-22- 08:32:11
Posts: 14
Location: Cheyenne, Wyoming, USA
Forum : General
Topic : HSMM and FREQ/Channels

It seems like the sweet spot is Channel -1 (2.402GHz) from 2.392GHz to 2.412GHz

and Channel 14 (2.484GHz) from 2.474GHz to 2.494GHz

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Last Edited On: 2011-09-22- 05:52:28 By KF7RMM for the Reason
 Subject :HSMM and FREQ/Channels.. 2011-09-22- 05:36:51 
KF7RMM
Member
Joined: 2011-09-22- 08:32:11
Posts: 14
Location: Cheyenne, Wyoming, USA
Forum : General
Topic : HSMM and FREQ/Channels

What Freq/Channels do you use for your Mesh?

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 Subject :HSMM and FREQ/Channels.. 2011-09-22- 05:36:51 
KF7RMM
Member
Joined: 2011-09-22- 08:32:11
Posts: 14
Location: Cheyenne, Wyoming, USA
Forum : General
Topic : HSMM and FREQ/Channels

What Freq/Channels do you use for your Mesh?

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 Subject :Re:44.0.0.0/8 ?.. 2011-09-22- 05:27:11 
KE5SWU
Member
Joined: 2011-09-20- 11:23:25
Posts: 6
Location: Beggs, Ok
Forum : General
Topic : 44.0.0.0/8 ?

I agree NAT is evil no way around it. That is why I want to use the 44 addresses, they are there for us to use. If we use the 44 addresses it also allows the users of the network to host their own servers to the world. I see no reason why this would be a bad thing. It would have be monitored but that is not to hard to do with some ACL's and packet inspection.
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 Subject :Re:First HSMM Project.. 2011-09-22- 05:08:41 
KF7RMM
Member
Joined: 2011-09-22- 08:32:11
Posts: 14
Location: Cheyenne, Wyoming, USA
Forum : Applications
Topic : First HSMM Project

Sounds very doable to me, you would just need one HSMM node, publish your Freq and streaming video IP, people could connect there HSMM node to your node and type in the IP address of your streaming video.
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 Subject :Re:44.0.0.0/8 ?.. 2011-09-22- 05:00:51 
KF7RMM
Member
Joined: 2011-09-22- 08:32:11
Posts: 14
Location: Cheyenne, Wyoming, USA
Forum : General
Topic : 44.0.0.0/8 ?

as far as tunnel back into the 44.0.0.0/8 address space, this is not something I plan to do from HSMM, that being said, whatever is the acceptable application for AMPRnet (I believe this is TNC @ 1200bps or 9600bps) I plan to deploy an Telnet BBS server onto whatever Address space I am assigned for 44.86.x.x, This will get my feet wet into the AMPRnet space. I am hoping with my IP address assignment will come documentation on how to hook up to AMPRnet weather this is via satellite, local repeater or internet tunnel I do not know at this time, and I am also unsure of what protocols I will need to run to advertise my assigned IP address space, It could just be a static route from the local Wyoming Authority or they might use some dynamic protocol. I am really looking forward to these questions being answers after I get assigned my IP address space. Maybe it will be a GRE tunnel over the internet..
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 Subject :Re:44.0.0.0/8 ?.. 2011-09-22- 04:53:00 
KF7RMM
Member
Joined: 2011-09-22- 08:32:11
Posts: 14
Location: Cheyenne, Wyoming, USA
Forum : General
Topic : 44.0.0.0/8 ?

First Answer

For the time being I am assuming I will not be putting anything outside of the private ip address ranges 10.0.0.0/8, 172.16.0.0/12, 192.168.0.0/16 onto HSMM-MESH, that being said the HSMM-MESH would be a isolated network. I don't see a need for NAT in an HSMM-MESH other then it would require less configuration.

I would rather have routing via OSPF routing tables and each node assigned its only private IP address space for devices be hide at. This would require assignment of IP address from some central authority and I do like the idea of wireless mesh nodes being compatible from different home areas with no IP address conflicts(mainly in the event of an Emergency). So the Central Authority could be a dynamic Server(s) or a national/global authority. I personally hate NAT. 

This authority is already in place for the 44.0.0.0/8 space, However that is for internet routable traffic, which would be highly use for in an emergency event. Almost as if the Node themselves could offer two modes of operation normal/private and emergency/public.

With maybe different Central Authority for both for national/global ip address assignment, one for private non-internet/normal mode and one for emergency/public internet mode.

I would also like to state that I am very open to my ideas being wrong, as far as I know it might already be done this way, most likely however it is done now is for a VERY GOOD REASON. At this point I am very much a outsider just starting to look into HSMM. 

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Last Edited On: 2011-09-22- 05:02:56 By KF7RMM for the Reason
 Subject :Re:Re:44.0.0.0/8 ?.. 2011-09-22- 04:08:24 
KE5SWU
Member
Joined: 2011-09-20- 11:23:25
Posts: 6
Location: Beggs, Ok
Forum : General
Topic : 44.0.0.0/8 ?

How do you plan on handling your routing table? Who will you tunnel to on the 44.0.0.0/8 network so traffic is routing in both directions?





[KF7RMM 22-09-2011 03:43:01]:

I am working on getting assigned 44.86.x.x IP addresses, However I am unsure how they will fix with any HSMM I deploy, I'm new to ham radio only getting my tech license this month, but I am diving right in to the topics that interest me the most, which are AMPRnet and HSMM. I understand HSMM not being a replacement for home/business internet, but in what cases is it acceptable to attached an internet gateway onto a HSMM mesh. Surely if the Red Cross needed to access internet resources and other communications where down this would be acceptable. I don't know about Internet gateways for more generalized usage. I was hoping ad5oo could share some of his personally thoughts on this.

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 Subject :Re:44.0.0.0/8 ?.. 2011-09-22- 03:51:02 
KE5SWU
Member
Joined: 2011-09-20- 11:23:25
Posts: 6
Location: Beggs, Ok
Forum : General
Topic : 44.0.0.0/8 ?

I still don't understand why adding a NAT'ing layer makes the network better. I agree the network is private, but that is taken care of by access to the wifi and ACL's on the ingress and egress points to the internet. This allows the users of the network to easily creating good content so the network has value. I am in a position where the number of likely nodes would never exceed the number of available IP's from the 44.78.0.0/16 subnet.
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 Subject :Re:Why not 3 Ghz?.. 2011-09-22- 03:50:42 
KF7RMM
Member
Joined: 2011-09-22- 08:32:11
Posts: 14
Location: Cheyenne, Wyoming, USA
Forum : General
Topic : Why not 3 Ghz?

My understanding is that you could swap crystals in the WRT54G router to make them work on other freq, Does anyone have a guide on doing this with a parts list? I am interested in setting up an HSMM Mesh on Freq dedicated for Ham Radio
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