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 Subject :New Firmware 1.0.0: clarification of behavior.. 2013-08-05- 08:21:18 
AB1PH
Member
Joined: 2013-08-05- 06:38:53
Posts: 8
Location: Walpole, MA

Ok, I am reading the release material.  It looks like the connection to the node are now "5 direct" and that forwarding rules as are required with the NAT approach is not required.

It also says that DNS needs to be working.

Some questions come to mind.

First, in our initial configuration, we are not attaching to the internet.  Therefore there is no DNS structure in place.  So it is unclear how we must get "DNS working".  Thoughts?

Second: what exactly is 5 direct?

Third:  since we are creating dynamically assigned mesh structured, what happens with the 5 DIRECT algorithm when two previously independent meshes now get a bridging node which connects them?  I could understand the behavior with NAT, but adding additional directly addressable nodes seems to have complicated this dynamic reconfiguration significantly.

Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks in advance!

73,
AB1PH
Don Rolph


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73,

AB1PH
Don Rolph
 Subject :Re:New Firmware 1.0.0: clarification of behavior.. 2013-08-05- 09:36:38 
ae5ae
Member
Joined: 2010-10-27- 00:47:17
Posts: 144
Location: Van Alstyne, TX

[AB1PH 2013-08-05- 08:21:18]:

Some questions come to mind.

First, in our initial configuration, we are not attaching to the internet.  Therefore there is no DNS structure in place.  So it is unclear how we must get "DNS working".  Thoughts?

Even though you're not attaching to the Internet there is still a DNS "structure" for the nodes on mesh.
But I think what's being referred to is DNS on your PC, especially if you have multiple network connections.  Reference?

Second: what exactly is 5 direct?

5-hosts in DMZ mode.  It was felt that 'direct' was a more "appropriate" naming for this mode.
This was available in previous versions in place of NAT mode but now it's the default.

Third:  since we are creating dynamically assigned mesh structured, what happens with the 5 DIRECT algorithm when two previously independent meshes now get a bridging node which connects them?  I could understand the behavior with NAT, but adding additional directly addressable nodes seems to have complicated this dynamic reconfiguration significantly.

Nothing happens to the algorithm.  In DMZ/Direct mode, which has been available for quite a few revisions of the firmware, the hosts on a node's LAN are given 10.0.0.0/8 IP addresses based upon the IP of the node's WiFi address.  Are you truly expecting IP address collisions?  Worst case you can go to the setup page and tweak the WiFi IP address and remove the collision.  Tis no more complicated than adding a similar number of nodes.

Any help would be appreciated!

Does this help, Don?

-Rusty-
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 Subject :Re:New Firmware 1.0.0: clarification of behavior.. 2013-08-05- 10:52:05 
wx5u
Member
Joined: 2013-01-02- 00:30:45
Posts: 188
Location: Austin, TX


I believe there is a theoretical risk of a name or IP address collision once you connect two previously independent mesh networks.  The wish list on the change log mentions "duplicate address/name detection." 

We use the 10.x.x.x address range, so there are 16 million IP addresses.  I believe the code allocates the IP addresses based on the MAC address of the router, so that makes collision less likely.

To avoid name collisions,  you should be sure that node names are unique.  For instance, name one node "AB1PH-1" and another one "AB1PH-2".   Bad things might happen if you have two with the same name.   

I suspect that you need to be careful about the name of your laptop as well.   For instance, if I give my laptop a hostname of "lap," and someone else names their laptop "lap" as well, there might be a name collision as well if we both connect.  They might both try to become "lap.local.mesh".  

If you have a laptop or other computer  you're going to connect to a mesh node from time to time, you should probably give the computer a host name of "AB1PH-lap1" or something similar.





[AB1PH 2013-08-05- 08:21:18]:


Third:  since we are creating dynamically assigned mesh structured, what happens with the 5 DIRECT algorithm when two previously independent meshes now get a bridging node which connects them?  I could understand the behavior with NAT, but adding additional directly addressable nodes seems to have complicated this dynamic reconfiguration significantly.




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 Subject :Re:New Firmware 1.0.0: clarification of behavior.. 2013-08-05- 16:07:41 
AD5OO
Admin
Joined: 2010-01-18- 23:05:42
Posts: 37
Location

First, in our initial configuration, we are not attaching to the internet.  Therefore there is no DNS structure in place.  So it is unclear how we must get "DNS working".  Thoughts?

DNS is essential to the operation of the mesh.  Whenever you are accessing a node or a service, you should never need to know an IP address.  All nodes/services are accessed by name, and it is DNS that translates the names to addresses for you.

What is meant by "getting DNS working" is making sure the computer you connect to a mesh node will apply the settings that it is given through DHCP.  Windows in particular seems to have its own ideas about how to configure DNS.  Sometimes it is right, and sometimes it is not.  If it is not, you are going to have trouble using the mesh.


Second: what exactly is 5 direct?

5 host direct mode means that the LAN subnet on the node has enough space for 5 addresses and they are directly accessible from the rest of the mesh.


Third:  since we are creating dynamically assigned mesh structured, what happens with the 5 DIRECT algorithm when two previously independent meshes now get a bridging node which connects them?  I could understand the behavior with NAT, but adding additional directly addressable nodes seems to have complicated this dynamic reconfiguration significantly.

I'm not sure exactly what you are asking, and direct mode should actually remove complexity from the mesh.  Simply setting up two or three mesh nodes with other computers or devices connected to each node LAN should help you see how it works.


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 Subject :Re:New Firmware 1.0.0: clarification of behavior.. 2013-08-06- 01:23:08 
AB1PH
Member
Joined: 2013-08-05- 06:38:53
Posts: 8
Location: Walpole, MA

Thanks for the response, I believe this clarifies my concern.


If I may summarize what I think I hear:


1) while I am not directly configuring a DNS server, DNS services are being created by default in the mesh.  I need to make sure my clients attached to the mesh are properly configured to support the mesh's default DNS behavior

2) The address space is 10.0.0.0/8 providing room for the 5 local nodes to be directly attached to the mesh without address transaltion

3) HSSM mesh is using a hashing algorithm in the 10.0.0.0 space which minimizes the probability of collisions when two previously existing meshes are bridged.  

Also, I do need to be careful of the local names assigned to edge devices such as laptops.

That clarifies my concerns.

Thanks for the help.

I will reimage my systems tonight and see if anything smokes! :-)

73,

AB1PH

Don Rolph

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73,

AB1PH
Don Rolph
 Subject :Re:Re:New Firmware 1.0.0: clarification of behavior.. 2013-08-06- 04:23:52 
wx5u
Member
Joined: 2013-01-02- 00:30:45
Posts: 188
Location: Austin, TX

Connecting to a mesh node is almost exactly the same as connecting to a stock WRT54G router or normal wired ethernet network. 

The magic of the mesh is mostly hidden behind the DHCP server, the DNS server, and the routing function programmed into the mesh node.   That's also true for a "normal" home router connection if you think about it.

The problem with Windows is that when you reconfigure the router, Windows tends to be slow about redoing the network configuration in terms of DNS, IP addresses, DHCP, ethernet up/down status, etc.  Even Linux PCs may end up confused.

This can happen even with a normal home router if you change something in the router configuration or swap routers.

Most of the time, the PC/Windows/Linux PC will eventually figure it out eventually.  If it doesn't, you have to tinker.  There are various shortcuts, but the safest bet is to reboot the PC after you change any configuration on the router is to reboot the PC.  If your PC won't connect to a mesh node after reconfiguring something, try a reboot of the PC before spending too much time on the shortcuts. 




[AB1PH 2013-08-06- 01:23:08]:

1) while I am not directly configuring a DNS server, DNS services are being created by default in the mesh.  I need to make sure my clients attached to the mesh are properly configured to support the mesh's default DNS behavior

...

AB1PH

Don Rolph


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I'm not part of the development team, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I'm also easily confused.

Check out the free Wireless Networking Book
 Subject :Re:New Firmware 1.0.0: clarification of behavior.. 2013-08-08- 03:10:32 
AB1PH
Member
Joined: 2013-08-05- 06:38:53
Posts: 8
Location: Walpole, MA
I updated my two devices yesterday and the behavior is as described by those kind enough to post and for the applications I am looking to support, this is a superior configuration. My thanks to the firmware developers as well as the documentation authors (now if I read the documentation more assiduously I would have saved my self half an hour but ... :-) ). I will finish testing and place them into service as well as on the HSMM map. Thanks for everyone's help!!! 73, AB1PH Don Rolph
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73,

AB1PH
Don Rolph
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